Thanksgiving and Families: A Talk with Phyllis L. Fagell and Dr. Robyn Silverman

This Thanksgiving episode tackles the inevitable family drama that comes with the holiday. I sat down with parenting experts Phyllis L. Fagell and Dr. Robyn Silverman to get their tips for navigating tricky conversations and situations with family members. We covered how to set expectations beforehand, validate kids' feelings without agreeing, use humor to defuse tense moments, and provide coping tools for when things go off the rails. The goal is to make the holiday more enjoyable for everyone - kids and adults alike! Tune in for practical strategies to make this Thanksgiving drama-free.

I was joined by two of my favorite parenting experts:

·         Phyllis L. Fagell, school counselor and author of “Middle School Superpowers: Raising Resilient Tweens in Turbulent Times”.

·         Dr. Robyn Silverman, child and teen development specialist and author of “How to Talk to Kids about Anything: Tips, Scripts, Stories, and Steps to Make Even the Toughest Conversations Easier”.

Timeline Summary:

[02:00] How to set expectations with family beforehand.

[03:57] Understanding kids' sensitivity around changes in their appearance.

[06:09] Making sure adults are aware of their own triggers.

[09:36] Giving kids an “out” if conversations get uncomfortable.

[12:18] Redirecting family away from constant questions about school.

[14:06] Using humor and screens to diffuse tense moments.

[18:08] Coaching kids on sharing funny videos/memes.

[19:29] Helping kids not feel “on the spot” in conversations.

[22:10] Getting to know grandparents as real people, not just authority figures.

[23:08] Alternatives to repetitive questions about school.

[27:25] Validating kids' feelings when things go wrong.

[31:53] Agreeing on facts versus feelings.

[33:07] Using different coping mechanisms based on the child.

[35:05] Having distractions/diversions ready when things go downhill.

[35:50] Importance of food and blood sugar levels.

Links & Resources:

·         Washington Post Article: Getting silly with your kids is vital. Here’s how to get play into your day.

·         Phyllis L. Fagell: https://phyllisfagell.com/ 

·         Dr. Robyn Silverman: 

o   Website: https://www.drrobynsilverman.com 

o   Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/DrRobynSilverman/ 

I hope these practical tips help make Thanksgiving a little smoother for your family! If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to rate, follow, share, and review. Happy Thanksgiving!

If you have a high school aged student and would like to talk about putting a tutoring or college plan together, reach out to Ned's company, PrepMatters at www.prepmatters.com

Transcript

Dr Robyn Silverman: 0:49

It's important to tell the relatives that you have expectations too. You really want things to go, well, we're not going to be scolding them in advance or pre worrying. But we are going to talk to them and say, Hey, by the way, I just want this holiday to go extremely well. And I know that you would never intend to make Sally feel upset by this kind of topic has been kind of going awry in our house. You know, as you can imagine this, you know, this can be tough on kids this age. So if we can just get rid of that one. I often say if it's going to be at your house, you can even leave a note on the door that just says like, drop the fat talk, like leave your fat talk at the door, and you can pick it up on your way out.

Ned Johnson: 1:39

Welcome to the self driven Job Podcast. I'm your host, Ned Johnson, and co author with Dr. Williams pictured of the books, the self driven child the signs and sense of giving your kids more control over their lives. And what do you say how to talk with kids to build motivation, stress tolerance, and a happy home? Well, absent family drama, Thanksgiving isn't nearly perfect holiday. But if we're completely honest, rarely are we have some family drama, it seems to be as common ingredient and family get togethers as cranberry sauce or mashed potatoes. And I'm looking forward this conversation with two of my favorite people in the world, Dr. Robin Silverman and Phyllis bagel who among them have decades of experience talking to kids and families and how to help things go better and multiple books. Phyllis, his most recent book is middle schools superpowers raising resilient tweens in turbulent times. And I think Thanksgiving goes right in the middle of turbulent times. Welcome. Welcome, fellas.

Unknown: 2:38

Thank you.

Ned Johnson: 2:39

It's always great to talk with you and Dr. Robin Silverman how to talk to kids about anything, tips, scripts, stories and steps to make even the toughest conversations easier. Welcome. I'm

Dr Robyn Silverman: 2:50

so glad to be here and unpack this incredible holiday.

Ned Johnson: 2:54

I'm so glad that you're here. So let's start with one of the places where things go go go into the ditch before we even get to Grandma's house, about expectations. And and I think part of the reason we get so much stripe is people imagine everyone has a movie in the head of what Thanksgiving is going to look like. And everyone's the director and producer of that movie. But we all have a different movie in our head. So for you and you think about where would you start with expectations that we might hold for ourselves, for our spouses, for married for our kids and laws? I'll jump in with you fellas. When you think about teenagers, where do you see things most going wrong? And how do parents helpfully set expectations before he'd been arrived? I

Unknown: 3:34

think the thing that parents need to understand about teenagers or tweens is that they're so exquisitely sensitive. So if you decide that Thanksgiving is the perfect time to have that intense conversation about where they plan to go to college in seven years, or whether they want that second helping of mashed potatoes, since they put on a little weight, to understand that you have just killed Thanksgiving in one sentence A

Ned Johnson: 4:03

lot of times what we as parents or grandparents or cousins or aunts or uncles think of as bad behavior of a misbehaving kid is nothing more than a kid who's more sensitive than we think they should be. And if you can imagine that anyone between the age of let's gonna say two and 100. But but with with with tweens, right, you know, 10 and 15 that they have from a brain development perspective. They're a lot more sensitive to social criticism or perceived social criticism, but don't yet have the executive functions catching up to help them put things into context and bounce back. And I know that's why your book is so powerful because it takes that seriously. And just points out, you think you're seeing this and you're really seeing that it's

Unknown: 4:47

something that's really key for parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents to understand is that they're desperate for adult approval and reassurance. They're actually looking to the adults in their life, to reassure them that at this time when they're experiencing so much change, that they are okay, just as they are. So when you make an offhand comment that probably reflects your own anxiety, more than anything that has to do with that child, odds are you're going to tap into not only their own insecurity about whether they're good enough, but also their insecurity about whether they're disappointing you pleasing you making you proud.

Ned Johnson: 5:26

Such a great point, Robin. Well, I

Dr Robyn Silverman: 5:29

would piggyback on all of what the brilliant Phyllis is saying here because it is a time of incredible change. And sometimes the people that you are with only see this child once a year. And because we're dealing with incredible change, parents have to realize that Last time these people saw the child, that child was probably markedly different, they probably look different. They may sound different, they may have different interests. And it doesn't make them worse or better or in comparison to somebody else. Oh, you remember when you're this one was this age, they did this, that and the other thing, negative, negative, negative, or? Oh, remember when this one was that age, she was doing X, Y, and Z? So fabulous, fabulous. Fabulous. What are you doing? So it's not a time for comparisons? It's not a time to start. harping on all of the changes, whoo, you sound different. Do you have a girlfriend, let's not go there. Because this is going to put that child into a position of feeling so much more awkward than they all ready, feel. So if you're going into the situation, remember the people who may feel the most awkward, or the most most worried about being judged? Is the child, not you.

Phyllis Fagell: 6:59

That's such a good point. And I love that, that observation that if we haven't seen this child for up to six months, a year or two years, the change will be dramatic. But the thing that we as parents might be so likely to call it oh my gosh, you're so much taller, you've changed your hair, whatever, may or may not be a source of excitement. Right? You know, some kids aren't happy about the ways that they're their bodies are changing. In terms of managing expectations, then do you see a place for parents to kind of message the grandparents and uncles and say, hey, you know, Trisha has grown six inches and last year, and she's the tallest kid and all of seventh grade and she's not love it? So can we talk ask her about her shoes? Not her not her shoe size? Is that? Is there a place for that? I would say absolutely. I like the idea of front loading. And pre talking, as you you know, get in my book that it's it's important to tell the relatives that you have expectations to, you really want things to go well, we're not going to be scolding them in advance or pre worrying. But we are going to talk to them and say, Hey, by the way, I just want this holiday to go extremely well. And I know that you would never intend to make Sally feel upset by this kind of topic has been kind of going awry in our house. You know, as you can imagine this, you know, this can be tough on kids this age. So if we can just get rid of that one. I often say if it's going to be at your house, you can even leave a note on the door that just says like drop the fat talk, like leave your fat talk at the door. And you can pick it up on your way out. Because a lot of kids are going to feel body shamed even if you haven't said anything that actually is shaming, because every evaluation of their bodies can make them feel uncomfortable, and make them look outward at themselves. Instead of talking about things that connect people. What are you reading right now? Is there any show that you're really interested in connect with the child on something that interests them? And instead of remarking on something that's outward, which they clearly are going to be sensitive about? Because it's it's, it's mainly a feature of being that age.

Unknown: 9:25

Reminds me of that scene in 16 candles. 16? Candles? Oh, honey, you got Hermes. And

Dr Robyn Silverman: 9:36

yes, I do what you were gonna say even before you said it, Phyllis, which is finanace. We're sharing some brain cells this morning. I was like, she's gonna mention it right now. Yes, yeah.

Unknown: 9:46

And I think that the other piece of this is that adults have to be aware of their own triggers and their own sensitivities. So that adult might have been teased by the grandparent who is going to be there and be worried that the grandparent will say something to their child that's offensive. And instead of makes making it better might say something that draws attention to it or makes it worse, but making sure that we are cognizant of whatever triggers our own anxiety and try to steer the conversation in a direction that doesn't make all of us regress to wherever we were the last time we were together as a family, which is what tends to happen anyway.

Ned Johnson: 10:26

So part of this would be then the pre talk as you as you point out, Rob, and I would imagine, perhaps even talking with their kids say, hey, you know, we haven't seen these folks in a while and they're going to notice changes are there. Would it be helpful are the things that you'd really like me to help steer a conversation away from? Is that a real useful conversation to have like, listen, kiddo, I can't perfectly control you Your Adobe uncle, but I understand that you're sensitive about this. So to your point about the connection Robin so that your your child really feels that you are on their side. Even though things may go down, you're already you know that they know that you're paying attention and not oblivious to what might be kind of a hard conversation for them. Yeah, I

Dr Robyn Silverman: 11:08

would say that you can you can offer is there any way I can support you in that? So either talking to them, which your child might be like, Absolutely not. But don't assume that that would be the answer. Or just trying to steer away from that conversation, you can have a code word, like duty or something else, pretzels, and just making it so that you're you know that your child is already uncomfortable, or your dopey uncle did just say something dumb, but also making a little bit light of the fact that you already know in advance that your uncle is dopey. And like you know how he is. And I'm not saying it's right, but he clearly lives under a rock. So we don't want to point it out that he lives under a rock. But you're welcome to tell me as many times as you'd like that he's being dope. And just allow your child that moment to be silently eyeing you, and you know exactly what they're saying, so that you're sharing the joke. That way the power of the conversation lies between you and your child rather than with the dopey uncle.

Unknown: 12:25

I like that I like the giving them strategy or a word and even giving them a way to extricate themselves from the situation entirely. It's okay if you need to go to the bathroom, if you want to ask if anyone wants to take a walk, and having a conversation with them about what those triggers might be for them. It might be that boyfriend, girlfriend conversation, it might be academics, it might be weight, whatever it might be athletics, it might be politics, given everything going on in the world right now. Yes. And giving them a way to politely leave a situation that's not going well, or that's making them uncomfortable, or that they don't want to be a part of for whatever reason.

Ned Johnson: 13:07

Yeah, they're going for the walk. For me. That's something we just plan those breaks, because family are great, but in doses. And so a walk I think is good for everyone. Well, what else? What else do you have you guys seen the effective

Unknown: 13:19

in my own family growing up at Thanksgiving. And just as a little segue, the cousins were all very different ages. And so it always seemed like somebody also felt left out, which was a trigger for the kids. And and so I think adults going into these holidays, can also make a point of recognizing, especially if you have one kid who's an outlier, age wise, that that might be hard for them, that they will do what they can to help them not feel left out. But one way to deal with both the sensitivity issue and also that feeling left out, is to schedule something for After dinner, we always went to a movie, and it gave everybody just a break from the interaction, some entertainment, it was inclusive, regardless of age, we choose something that everyone could see. I

Dr Robyn Silverman: 14:03

like that idea.

Ned Johnson: 14:05

Plus, a lot of good

Dr Robyn Silverman: 14:05

movies come out that I would also add that in a case where you have a lot of different ages, and now you've got like a tween, and you have some much younger ones, that it would be completely normal to be able to say something like, Oh, honey, this sounds like a great time to go take your little one, two. So go see the couple of books that you have, that you found in your room for that age group, because the youngest is not going to have the same baggage as any of the older ones. So making them a caretaker in that moment would be a great getaway for that child and seem completely typical and lovely to everybody. But it can also be an excuse to get away in that moment.

Ned Johnson: 14:57

I like that. So something other than screens. Right?

Dr Robyn Silverman: 15:00

Nothing other than screens? Sure. Yes.

Ned Johnson: 15:04

Sonya Lupien for Folkestone, Oh her heads the Center for Studies of human stress in Montreal, Canada. And she talks about the four methods of emergency stress relief, which are which is great. And it's all based on just the physiology of it. laughing, singing, vigorous exercise and deep breathing. And so so you know, you may not jump into Jazzercise in the middle of the living room. Right. But the the laughter is great. And so if you go if you go back to what you're saying about Hey, show me these great memes. It's so interesting. I'd love to talk a little bit about screens because it's easier for people of any older age to sort of rundown you know, some of the younger and like you're wasting your time on the thing and it may be nothing more complicated than As your uncle or grandparent or whatever, I'm kind of wounded because I'm not getting that attention that you're giving to the screen. Right? And so our mutual friend Devorah Heitner. And her latest book Growing up in public dinner talks about how, how do we as parents, and as adults work with our kids, when they're when they've got their noses in screens. And some one of the points that she makes is of having to be a shared experience. And so, to your point, Robin, you know, show me what's up in there, but my kids, you know, we have a rule about not having screens at the dinner table. But after him, you know, which I think makes a ton of sense. But after dinner, you know, you can say, hey, go grab, you can grab your phone and show me that thing. And my kids one night at dinner went back and forth of kind of like, one upping each other with one ridiculous meme or video after another. And it was, I mean, it was, I mean, it was side stitching, it was so funny. And, to your point about, we can pick things that are peachy, right, so everyone can be part of it, right. But to have that, then it becomes a shared experience, it seems to me as a great way to blow off some steam, but also, perhaps to educate the older folks that this isn't just a colossal waste of everyone's time.

Unknown: 17:00

And to really help them understand why kids are on the screen. So especially now, so many of them are using the screen as a crutch, because their social skills aren't that strong, or they don't know how to enter a conversation. Or they're overwhelmed in the presence of so many relatives and don't even know how to break into what's going on. And so rather than taking away their crotch and saying your you've got to fly solo, and carry this your half of the conversation, it gives them an in that's a little bit safer, that feels more comfortable. And especially and I say this is the parent of a teen boy, especially for boys, it is almost like a love language to share the funniest videos with the people in their life.

Ned Johnson: 17:45

I'd agree with that. That's a beautiful way of thinking about that.

Dr Robyn Silverman: 17:48

So somebody had once said to me and to my friend, Kathleen, that you have to bring them through their door in order to get them through yours. So in order to be able to talk about things that you might know about or want to relay, you first have to take them through their own door, and their own door may be that Internet, and that you know those memes, those ridiculous videos, in which case, it may remind you Oh, so you know that this actually happened to me. And you can get into conversations that may lead to more authentic based conversations that have to do specifically with the people in that room. But you may not start there, you can start with where they are, and then connect it. And it would be it actually includes them and connects them to the past. It connects them to you. And it doesn't make it so you're you're trying to just draw straws. They're providing the straws, and they're like, pick one of these and then you can go with that.

Ned Johnson: 18:59

Do you coach kids sort of in advance of this conversation, you know, to be going into a situation to coach kids on? Hey, it'd be great if you share these memes are had these videos to share with your grandparent rather than Hey, why don't you show that too? Because sometimes in the moment, it Well, anyone in a moment who's stressed is going to be more inflexible, where if these things are talked about in advance, you can sort of plan what's the best way to think of this as a tool.

Unknown: 19:26

I think that rather than making it about them, you could make it about yourself so that they're not quite as under the microscope. So you might say something like, If grandma starts talking about X, Y, or Z, it's going to make me insane. It's going to make me feel so irritated. If that happens. Will you jump in and show that video that's so funny about whatever. So they're using the video to rescue you as opposed to rescue themselves?

Ned Johnson: 19:55

Oh, we're back to middle school superpowers.

Dr Robyn Silverman: 20:00

It's almost like she wrote the book. I mean, it's amazing.

Ned Johnson: 20:03

I love that. I love that in part because then we you know, you were back to, I guess this conspiratorial Justice League, right? Well, you know, it's team is TEAM Faygo. And we're all we're all trying to figure out how to navigate Nana, you know, or whatever it happens to be. I love that. Well,

Unknown: 20:19

if you go in thinking that you're, you, as a child go in thinking, you know, someone's gonna tease me about my weight or whatever, then you're already feeling self conscious. You've already taken that hit, even if it never ends up coming to fruition. Whereas if you as the parent say, oh my gosh, if she starts talking about how many servings I've had, and you make it about yourself, or whatever that tough topic is if somebody starts talking about my, my hair or my clothes, whatever, I hope you and help me change it's the subject. So just not even having them have that negative anticipation that they will be humiliated in some way.

Dr Robyn Silverman: 20:57

That's a great way to have them contribute and feel like they're, they're an important part. They're not just coming along. They're your they're your sidekick, they're very your wing man. And that can really be helpful. And we know that, that children who feel like they're contributing are going to feel a lot better about themselves and being there. I'd also add that when your child shows you a meme, you might say to them, oh, my gosh, your grandpa would think that is hilarious, you have to save that one. And when we go over to his house later, you have to show him and ask him about what happened on the rock when he was 16. So you're already front loading, the connection between what they did, what they're showing you and what and this older person who they may not know, as much as a person, especially as they're going through those changes. They're now going to be having different types of conversations and be regarded in different ways. Now, they're taller now they're, you know, seem more, more like an adult than they did a year ago. So the conversation might be different, like, oh, you know, he probably wouldn't have told you this last year. But now that you're getting older, I think you can ask him, show him that beam and then tell them I want to know about the story on the rock. And, and they go with that.

Unknown: 22:32

I love that Robin. I love that story. And I love the fact that it taps into kids natural curiosity about where they come from. They do want to know those stories about people who are aunts, uncles, grandparents, and where they came from. And if they're busy talking about their own life and their own experiences, odds are they're less likely to put their foot in their mouth and say something. antagonize that nice nephew, grandchild.

Dr Robyn Silverman: 23:00

It humanizes them too, doesn't it, it makes it so they're not only the stern grandparent or you know, the dopey Uncle, it's now they've got some stories that they can contribute and some ways to connect. So that that becomes part of who they are. And the the your child's concept of who they are. So now, their concept of that person actually grows and the idiosyncrasies can be dwarfed.

Ned Johnson: 23:29

Yeah, I love that I'm thinking. I was Bruce Feiler, who talks about how helpful it is for kids to know about their parents, and even more so the grandparents about the struggles that they had, that they had as younger people and kind of the arcs of their lives as opposed to just fully formed, you know, competent adults, because it's so hard for little kids to imagine their their older families anything other than they've been old forever, right? Yes, I want to go back for one second and talk about school because you we've sort of talked about parents, or grandparents or whoever noticing all the physical changes, it seems to me that probably just out of a deficit of imagination. Every person asks, you know, so how school because they want to start a conversation, but they don't know what else to ask about. But that gets, it gets old in a hurry. And particularly if school isn't exactly a source of joy or sources, access, and maybe the last thing you want it to, but it's a vacation for kids, too, right? So where do you get the top of mind questions that you could we could be to people who don't know what else to ask, what would you have them start with?

Unknown: 24:35

I think that's a great way to start is to just ask them more open ended question. Like what kind of things are you into these days? It can even be are you watching anything good on Netflix? Or you can ask the parents to are they playing a sport are they do they like it, you may want to know if they just got cut from the team that they were desperate to make that might not be the best topic to bring up that I think that especially if it's a kid that you want to connect with and you want to learn more about just to do that reconnaissance in advance yourself so that you know you're not tapping into something super uncomfortable for the kid.

Dr Robyn Silverman: 25:12

I asked questions on my Facebook page, my at Dr. Robin Silverman that generate a lot of answers, because they are questions that everybody seems to have an answer to. And it doesn't have to just be directed towards the child. Things like what's your biggest pet peeve? It's like how you stack the dishwasher and you know, a wet bathmat and people oh my gosh, blah, blah, blah, you know, and all of a sudden they're on it. There's a lot of questions that can be fun for everybody to answer. You know if you could pick any place in the world Uh, you know, go to right now, where would you want to go? And it may be, oh, I just want to go to the next town over because that's where my boyfriend is. But it can also be, you know, Paris or Australia is on my bucket list. And you're hearing from all these different people. I've always wanted to go to Australia, but I'd never ever went, you know, oh, why didn't you go grandma? So you can start building on those types of questions and realize that there can be questions that each person can contribute to, so that it doesn't feel like it's just falling in one person's lap. A lot of people and a lot of kids don't like to be the center of attention in those types of situations.

Unknown: 26:27

I love those questions. I even wrote them down. I thought these are well go to

Dr Robyn Silverman: 26:31

my go to go to the Dr. Robin Silverman, Facebook, and it's unbelievable. Some of them are millions of people have answered. And it's like, they love talking about it. And they'll piggyback on other people's things like yesterday's, when I asked people the biggest pet peeve. I mean, there's a lot of people who can't stand the way the other person does the dishwasher. It's, it's, it's a big thing. That is an example of exactly what can happen. Because somebody said something, and it takes the pressure off, it's something a lot of people can, you know, understand. And for other people who are bad dishwasher loaders, they can change the subject to another thing that bothers them. Or you can go to what is something that a friend has done for you lately, that really made you smile can be something extremely positive. And that could lead to all kinds of other stories. So I

Unknown: 27:22

love that. And I it makes me think and I do this sometimes in the classroom setting with kids just to help them work on social skills, which, as I've mentioned, a lot of them lack or they're lagging and need a lot of support. And we'll have them brainstorm a whole list of questions it might be Would You Rather, which is another way, rotation, and then I put them all in a bowl, and at the beginning of class, they choose one and that becomes the topic. So even at Thanksgiving dinner, you can have everybody toss in one of those general questions into a bowl and you pick it out.

Dr Robyn Silverman: 27:54

To your point Phyllis, where you're saying like, Oh, these kids don't have great social skills, like some adults don't have great social skills. So

Ned Johnson: 28:02

So if despite all those best efforts, things do go south in a really colorful way. What are some of the tools that you would have for for children who are having meltdowns are adults who are acting like children having their own meltdowns, you know, it's only once a year and your grandmother will be dead soon, you know, kind of thing and enter to leaning on the kid to change behavior. Because if you're the parent, you have your child, but you're the child of someone else, they're very often I might be triggered by what my mom or dad is doing. And I'm trying to get my child to behave better. So that doesn't cause distress. And because I think we all understand what I'm trying to say here.

Unknown: 28:41

You know, I think that the key is recognizing that meltdown is coming, things are going south before it actually goes completely off the rails and having some kind of structured activity that you can turn to whether it's a board game, or some sort of game that involves concentration, something like pick up sticks, or any kind of crowd pleasing game, removing a kid from a situation if you can see that it's not working at that rate and just offering them and now this is something you say all the time that kids can't lat logically reason with kids until they feel understood. Just taking them aside and say saying, you know, I know that this is not working for you? How can I support you? What can I do can go a long way to helping them?

Ned Johnson: 29:25

Can you guys jump in and talk a little bit about how we validate even if we don't agree with it with the kids facts? As

Dr Robyn Silverman: 29:33

you know, my first chapter is all on emotions. How do you talk to kids about big feelings like anger and sadness and fear. And the first part is validating and you know, they bonk their brother in the head with a car, you know, toy car and your your first thing is, why would you do that? It's it's not validating the feeling that we do not agree with the child bunking their brother in the head with car. But you do have to realize that probably wasn't the first move. Right? That was the first thing that happened to that moment. And I know it's hard to share. I could see you're getting angry. I could see that you're really frustrated with the way that your brother is playing with this car. So you can validate even in that very rudimentary way when you're in the thanks, you know, the Thanksgiving setting. And you can see your child is getting frustrated. It's coming off as quote unquote sassy or rude. No at all. You know where it's coming from though, because there's already things that have happened to your child. is not doing it to make people feel frustrated, they're already feeling frustrated. And now it's outwardly coming out. I know it's hard to be with grandma, when she starts drinking, I know that it's hard to, you know, be with your uncle, when he starts making remarks about your body, my body, whatever it is. And you can, you can see that, I would also add that, when you're going into a setting that maybe they're not typically in, they're going to Uncle Larry's house, they do typically don't go to Uncle Larry's house, when you first go there, you can do a little tour of Uncle Larry's house and say, this looks like it could be a really great getaway spot for you. Where else could you go? Where would you feel comfortable if you're starting to feel angry, frustrated. And you know, you feel that way, because your hands start getting clenched, you start getting, you know, feeling hot, your stomach gets a knot in it, you know, you've already gone over these things, these pre talks are already part of your regular lexicon. And they know that this is the deal, then they have a place to go where they can be alone, they can have the code word with you, if they need you to kind of help them. And as they're what Dr. Lim Kenny says they're going up anchor mountain, you want to get them before they go all the way to the top and start going over. We're getting them as they're just starting to approach the mountain or is just starting to go up is this a good time to go to that special place that we've mapped out before, so that they have that that out? Because once the child has already flipped their lid, as Dan Siegel says, You can knock it on them back for another, you know, 18 to 20 minutes.

Ned Johnson: 32:43

And I would think that validation is great, too. You know, I'd be upset too. If I felt like the kids were on there. All they're doing is had their nose done and their devices. You know, I feel though I'd feel that way too. And the thing that's interesting is that you can validate without agree. Right? I feel upset too, if I felt like I was being ignored, ignored by some well, they're not actively ignored. It's how you feel right? We don't have to agree with it with fat.

Unknown: 33:03

I think too, especially since we started talking about that. Nine or 10 to 1415 year old range, tween range, I think we underestimate the power of humor and lightening the mood. So logic doesn't work if you don't feel understood, but you can almost bypass all of it if you can get them to laugh. It's like is it unit who says it's impossible to feel stressed and laugh at the same time? I can't even remember who right.

Ned Johnson: 33:29

Yeah. And we're back to the emergency stress relief and all the silly memes. Yes,

Unknown: 33:34

yeah. So maybe we all need to come with a book of really dumb what's the worst dad joke you've ever heard? Sometimes

Ned Johnson: 33:42

it'd be hard to be funny in that moment, because, you know, I may be my kid is upset and triggered by whatever is going on. I as a parent may likely be stressed out as well. And so I may be really difficult for me to be as flexible as we want to be right.

Dr Robyn Silverman: 33:57

Also, knowing that what works for you may not work for your child and somebody who's neurodiverse you can go through a variety of different ways, you know, Janine Halloran and her coping skills for kids where you would go through and ask yourself what really works for my kid to regulate themselves? Is it something more physical? Do they need to be pounding on dough? Or do they need to go run around the house? How quickly can you run around the house three times I'm gonna time you ready go is going to be a different kid than who somebody who's very sensory oriented, who needs calm music. And then you're planning this in advance, right? You've got it ready to go. You've got the earphones you've got the place that it's gone, we're going to be who's somebody who is needs to be very tactile and has needs to be swaddled with a blanket or needs to be touching bumpy blankets or whatever you have these things ready to go. We would call it a matte box. If I was talking to Dr. Lynn Kenny, or when do young knowing in advance preparing for that in advance, so that you're not going oh my gosh, my child is starting to lose it. Now I need to find some drum to drum on I need to find something for them to be using with their fine motor skills. Anybody who's tense in a moment, he's gonna have a much harder time trying to find something that will work for their child and somebody who has planned in advance and has it ready to go. One

Unknown: 35:28

of the things that we always did at Thanksgiving and it's coming back to me now and is along those lines is that Thanksgiving because we were all in person and it was when we would exchange holiday gifts to because we weren't together for the holidays. And often the time that we would do that correlated to when things were starting to go downhill fast or You know, the kid with ADHD was starting to lose it and needed a distraction and didn't want to do their magic tricks anymore, or whatever it was that they were doing. And we'd already walked to the playground. And that would be when we would open that presents. And we also always at my family Thanksgivings did gift swap, which could also go south and did on one or two occasions, if people were not happy with what whatever gift they ended up with, at the very end, and I'm talking about the adults, not the kids.

Dr Robyn Silverman: 36:20

There it is, again, social skills,

Unknown: 36:22

but any kind of built in diversion to have on hand, if especially if you're the host, if you think that your guests need some kind of redirection at some point, and more structure. And

Ned Johnson: 36:35

one last thing to think just popped to mind for me is hypoglycemia is real. And oftentimes the host family, you know, can people can have expectations of exactly when they're supposed to start and sometimes we're late and think, Well, this kid should be able to hold off, we're going to eat in, you know, we're going to eat in 30 minutes, you should be able to but if a kid is melting down because of a lack of glucose, it probably is more important to get them you know, some whipped cream into their face then then in that they save their appetite for that golden, you know, glorious turkey. Well, well, thank you, Phyllis, for joining me. Thank you, Robin, for joining me. Happy Thanksgiving to you and we're with everyone you're with. I hope you have a wonderful time.

Unknown: 37:15

Thanks both of you. You too.

Ned Johnson: 37:17

Thanks. I'm Ned Johnson. And this is the self driven shell podcast. Happy Thanksgiving all. Hey, folks, Ned here. Over the past 25 years I've talked with 1000s of parents of high school students, parents who care deeply about their kids education and how they deal with stress and the pressure to succeed. But these parents need to work with the team they trust won't just pile on more pressure to achieve better grades and scores. This is why I started prep matters in 1997 to create a different kind of experience for test preparation, tutoring in college admissions planning. This podcast and my books reflect our company's philosophy and approach to helping students if you have a high school student and we'd like to talk about putting in place a plan, please get in touch with us visit our website at prep matters.com or call 301-951-0350. That's 301-951-0350 Thanks