Choosing a New School: Why, When, and How

Hey everyone, welcome back to The Self-Driven Child Podcast! In this episode, I sit down with the incredibly insightful Wendy Wilkinson, a parent educator and admissions expert with decades of experience. Wendy shares her wisdom on how to find the right school for your child, navigating the complex world of school choices, and understanding what makes a good fit for different types of learners. Whether you're a parent feeling the pressure of school admissions or just curious about the process, this episode is packed with valuable insights and practical advice.

Episode Highlights:

[00:00] - Wendy discusses the initial reactions parents have when told their child may need extra support.

[00:40] - Introduction to the podcast and today’s topic on choosing the right school.

[01:47] - Welcoming Wendy Wilkinson and a brief overview of her impressive background.

[04:53] - Wendy shares her dream of helping families find the right school for each child.

[07:20] - Overcoming the challenges of school admissions and finding the right fit.

[10:56] - Exploring different types of schools and the importance of a tailored fit.

[13:19] - How to handle learning differences and finding supportive school environments.

[16:37] - Tips for parents on how to identify when a school change might be necessary.

[22:22] - The importance of involving children in school decisions.

[26:06] - Evaluating schools and understanding what makes a good fit.

[29:34] - Navigating the admissions process and understanding school selection criteria.

[37:57] - Advice for parents on filtering out noise and focusing on their child's unique needs.

[41:00] - Where to find Wendy and her team for personalized education consulting.

Links & Resources:

Connect with Wendy: https://www.schoolfirstnyc.com/ 

If this episode has helped you, remember to rate, follow, and share the Self-Driven Child Podcast. Your support helps us reach more people and create more content that makes a difference. 

If you have a high school aged student and would like to talk about putting a tutoring or college plan together, reach out to Ned's company, PrepMatters at www.prepmatters.com

If you have a high school aged student and would like to talk about putting a tutoring or college plan together, reach out to Ned's company, PrepMatters at www.prepmatters.com

Transcript

Wendy Wilkinson: 0:49

If a teacher and or administrator says we're worried about your child for this reason, it is often I've been doing this for 30 years, the first reaction and I was one of them. What are you talking about? My kid is brilliant. My kid is great. My kid doesn't know that must be he must be bored. He or she is just tired. Right? Our first go to is no, that's not the case. It must be the school. I would say if somebody comes to you and says we're a little worried, listen and ask a lot of questions, and then say, what can we do about this? Who is here to help us? How can we get the resources and support we need? And our child deserves?

Ned Johnson: 1:30

Welcome to the self driven Job Podcast. I'm your host, Ned Johnson, and co author with Dr. Williams pictured of the books, the self driven child the science and sense of giving your kids more control over their lives. And what do you say, how to talk with kids to build motivation, stress tolerance, and a happy home? Chances are the only people more looking forward to summer vacation than kids are teachers and parents, especially if the school year has been hard. Parents may want to think about anything other than school. But transitions are a great time to reflect and consider what went well and what didn't. But what kind of support your child could benefit from next year, or maybe what need went unmet. Sometimes that's about what kids themselves can do and how we as parents can help. And while healthy struggle is part of learning and growth, sometimes it's more than that. And then might be the school environment that needs to be re examined. Maybe my kid is just in the wrong school. But how do you know? How do you assess when a bigger change is what is needed? And if you do need to make a bigger change? How do you find the right fit school for your student, which is why I'm pretty keen to talk through choosing schools with Wendy Wilkinson, parent educator, full disclosure, also a friend and someone with deep experience helping families navigate the boundless choices of schools. I'm Nick Johnson, and this is the self driven child podcast. Welcome, Wendy.

Wendy Wilkinson: 2:55

Thank you. So please excuse the dog in the background.

Ned Johnson: 2:59

Maybe we'll talk about schools that have canines in the back. For dogs. Can you share a little bit about your dog? I'm teasing. Can you share a little bit about your background and kind of for people here in the DC area where we're recording this year, you're a well known commodity, but there are people listening all over the world who might benefit from knowing about some of the experience you bring to this work.

Wendy Wilkinson: 3:19

Thank you, man, I'm so happy to be here talking about what I love to talk about. And that's really helping families find the best school for each child, the school environment. And sometimes parents can cringe like, What do you mean for each child, I want to find a school for my family. That's fine. We'll talk about that throughout the podcast for sure. But I really am just so passionate about making sure kids find the place that they get to be who they are meant to be. My background. I'll start professionally and then I'll tie it a little bit to why I'm so passionate about it as a mom, as well. So I started a long time ago, in the Bay Area. I was a kindergarten teacher. I began as a kindergarten teacher. And then after getting my masters I became a school counselor, all in independent schools in San Francisco, and then down in the Silicon Valley. And then I moved into admissions when I realized a lot of the kids I was counseling and working with were part of the community were building the culture of the school and figuring out how do you best support them. And sometimes I was supporting them in finding a new school as the counselor because it just for whatever reason, academically socially, emotionally, it was a misfit. Then I was offered a job at a school to be their admissions director having never done it. I love the head of school and said, Okay, let's try this. And that's when we I started working in admissions and I worked in over eight schools in the bay area for about 22 years. And then I moved to DC about 13 years ago, and landed as the Associate Director of Admissions at Sidwell Friends School. And then I moved back into leadership over at National Cathedral School, and I was,

Ned Johnson: 4:58

which is an all girls school here in DC for folks who don't know, yes,

Wendy Wilkinson: 5:02

thank you. Yep. All girl school fourth grade through high school, and I led the enrollment and mission Financial Aid Office for nine years. And then where it ties to personal life about two years ago, as we all were getting out of the pandemic, I realized I was spending a lot of time in the spring National Cathedral schools have very strong school. And it's a very, like all schools are very good schools for the right person. And so right child and so as the admissions season would be over families that I wasn't able to say yes, NCS is the right school for your child would call me because we would build a connection often during the process. say well, if not where, where should I go? And I loved helping families find the really good school for their child. held? Can

Ned Johnson: 5:50

I pause on that for one second, I love that. It may be easy for people who have kids who are, you know, trying to apply to school, either you know, high school or, or elementary schools or even when they're thinking about the college admissions, who may often think that your job is an admissions counselor is to just say no, right? You're a keeper, right? That you're trying to deny people the dream that we have for our kid, or as you mentioned before, for our family, right, you thwarted us, and that the way that you came into the work you're doing now working as a counselor, advisor for folks was really born out even when you were in that, you know, just saying, No admissions are all right that even then you're you're thinking about bringing the right kids into the right school, in this case with National Cathedral where your last work, but then still committed to it. If this wasn't the right place for them. How do we find a place that is going to meet their needs as learners and developing young people? That's cool. Thank

Wendy Wilkinson: 6:45

you. Yeah, no, I love that piece. Although, of course, it's only two or three families that felt comfortable enough to come back and say, and weren't too mad at me, to

Ned Johnson: 6:55

everyone else, you're, you're wiping the egg off your car in the front of your house, you know, and

Wendy Wilkinson: 6:58

I and I get that to know, people were so lovely. And I hope that's what transparency does. Right? It gets it helps you to understand that schools have specific missions, and they can meet the needs of certain demographics, certain types of learners. And not every school is right for every kid. And that's the rub. And it gets more complex and more, we go out and figure out where what is the goal, and where is the goal coming from. So I love doing that. But obviously, it would just be a few and my hands were tied, you know, I was dedicated and very loyal to the school at which I was working. And so I couldn't do a lot for the families. And at the same time, I have, as Ned knows, well, I have two students, two kids, I'm a mom of young adults. And they've had very different schooling experiences, because they are very different learners. And one is very well we'd say neurotypical, and one is neurodiverse. And as a mom, even as a mom, right in the schools with all access to all the different people who know everything about education, we still struggle with finding the right type of environment, the right support systems, figuring out what kind of learner he was, I mean, we've been through it all with him. He's now 19. He's fabulous, he knows I share our story together. And our journey because my dream is to help families when they're younger, we first are noticing that my son would need a little bit something special when he was six in first grade. But he's 19. And we're still trying to help him figure out what's the best learning environment for him. And so my dream is to work with families on finding just the right schools, so they don't go through the struggles that we did as a family.

Ned Johnson: 8:42

I appreciate that. And for folks who for whom this may be new, or don't kind of live in some of the spaces that I think you and I spend a lot of time I think folks can think that the job of you know, an independent counselor either to for school or for for college or graduate school is to somehow be an agent and it's a backdoor you know, Rick singer handshake way, Unity tech and I've my way into Princeton, or what I'm no offense to anyone it would Princeton, as opposed to really as a counselor, right. And to your point, you know, finding the right fit, because there's, you know, there's no one perfect place, but there certainly are schools that are better fits or poor fits for the learning needs, the social needs, the extracurricular needs, the, you know, on and on, it goes for different kids. And one of you could sort of paint kind of walk us through a little bit, some of what some what the range of schools looks like, last podcast, or had an interview with a woman named Katie Broadbent, who's this fabulous educator group called Prentice schools that provide support and curricula for really parents or educators who want to put together micro schools. And they're like, 10, max of 10 kids in the school. There's a big range between that and the traditional public school that maybe, you know, hundreds, if not 1000s. So just you know, what, what are some of the options and understand not everybody has all these options everywhere in the country, but kind of what should people be thinking about?

Wendy Wilkinson: 10:07

Great question, particularly because family spent a lot of time we spent a lot of time with our kids suddenly, in those two years of that word was just not even talked about anymore. But it really did it impact our kids, it it impacted us as parents. So there's a lot of anxiety that we hold, because one we saw how our kids were struggling all day long, where sometimes we can send them to school and they may be struggling off and on through the school day, but we're at home, we're busy. We're doing things and and we didn't see it quite so up close and personal. So a lot of us are taking a step back and thinking oh, wow, is there something we could be doing differently for my child or as educators for a lot of kids? I am so lucky. I have visited over 50 schools in the DI DS He region. And then about 20 in the San Francisco Bay area. Those are my two expertise areas. And my business partner is in New York City. And she also knows the schools and Florida's really well, so we have regions. And then school first has a college counselor that I think you'll be talking to. So yeah, but in DC, do genuinely there are so many options that most people don't even know exist. And I didn't know as an educator and an admissions person, I didn't know about 15 of them, until I became an education consultant two years ago. And so what I do is I spend my time I spent a morning this morning, at a school that I had never visited in preschool through eighth grade, I knew about it because one of their students applied to National Cathedral School several years ago, and she's one of my I just saw her the other day when I was visiting. And she's a senior headed off to a wonderful school is right for her. But I had never been in the building. And it's so cool to go to all these different schools and say, Ah, had I known that for my son 10 years ago, wow, things probably would have been different, or that is not right for either my kids. But wow, is it good for this kind of learner. And there are just so many options. So they include micro schools, there are some micro schools that are more homeschool looking. And so I've worked with families and finding a way to homeschool. A family of five last year moved in from out of town, and they really want to homeschool their three boys who are big hockey players, and they had a very full schedule, but they still want to keep up their academics. And they created a micro school with tutors that I was able to find and figure out how do you do that with Arlington school district that is aligned with the school. So they're on par. And there's there's credentials behind it. And it works really well for the family. So that's one extreme. And then there are micro schools in DC, in Maryland that are just you know, 1015 20 years old. And when we call them micro schools, because they have about 60 to 80 students in the school, six through 12th grade, I visit schools that have specialty with kids on the autism spectrum, I have schools that I feel very comfortable sending kids who have ADHD, and just need a couple more years to strategize and figure out how do you work with my learning? How do I work with my own learning style. So when I go back to my public school, or I go to a different independent school, I know how to self advocate, I know accommodations I need. And we know which school can support those accommodations. And then of course, there are the traditional public and private schools.

Ned Johnson: 13:28

And let me jump in there. For one thing, I love the point that you made there that sometimes it's kids need to go elsewhere for you know, a couple years and work on skills and catch up on stuff that it isn't, you know, if I leave my public school or leave the independent school, or I am, and I go someplace else, it doesn't mean that I you know, I may be there through the whole way through. But I may or may not B, I did a presentation with a wonderful school in Dallas, Texas, they described it is almost kind of like a pitstop, where kids would often kids with with a sort of a whole array of things that made learning challenging. And they would come and be there typically for a year or two or maybe a little bit more. And they described it not just when we're learning disabilities, we can make accommodations, but but their head of the school had a wonderful point about the differences between accommodations and remediation. So for instance, if you had a kid who you know with dyslexia was who really struggled to learn to read at the level of the student didn't learn to read, it just took a lot of intense work to really get that kid caught up. So his skills were they needed to be. And then this is all these parents don't beautiful stories, but we're here for a couple years and just work so darn hard. And then went off to the, you know, the school where their older brother and sister had been. And so I think sometimes people think I've got to pick the one school and this is what we do until we go to college and not necessarily sell right?

Wendy Wilkinson: 14:53

That's exactly right. And I love especially when they're younger. So I have that in my family, my sister's two girls two as a three in first and second grade just there's something the teachers at their traditional private school are saying, the reading is super challenging for for these two girls at different times. And they ended up going to school that was specific for kids with ADHD, and some other verbal and nonverbal learning differences. But for them, it was ADHD. They started working with the doctor, they started working with the school, two years. These are young women in their 20s Now who went off to fantastic named independent schools that many people all over the country now went off to university and very strong schools and thriving, and they that they found out early. Oh, so something's a little bit like huh, my teachers are telling me something. Sometimes you don't have to go. No, my kids find this is way too early. It's like well, let's just explore and sometimes it is just The teacher doesn't get the kid and their personality, but oftentimes, like, oh, there's information here, let's explore.

Ned Johnson: 15:56

So that's a really good point you raise? Well, let me ask you this. We know as educators, we know as parents, we should, we should expect kids to struggle from time to time, right? Anything worth doing well is worth doing poorly first. And so kids can find math harder, reading hard, harder, friendships hard. And we call the growing pains, not not growing joys, but there is a point in which it's more than just kind of the typical struggle. So what are pain points? What should the parents thinking about? Or looking at what questions should they be asking themselves? To think, you know, hey, this is more than just, this has been kind of a hard month or hard semester, even a hard year, that maybe this environment is we should be exploring to see if there are places that are better fit for our kid?

Wendy Wilkinson: 16:37

It's, it's such a good question. Because I think our generation in particular, as parents are worried that we're being too soft, and we really want to protect them and, and their lives are harder than when I was growing up. Right? They have they know a lot more about the hard things in the world. So we want to protect them. And so not to jump at the challenges. A kid comes home crying. kids cry. Yeah, there's social interactions. I hear it a lot. Not just because I was at a girls school, but in CO Ed schools to the girls are so mean, they're mean girls, these are kids, all of them working through their challenges, right. So there's a lot of challenges that we have to read through and work with our kids to really understand, let them be challenged, is when the challenge becomes more of a threat. And you see behaviors that aren't healthy, that are consistent. I guess I'm going to more of an extreme when you know, okay, it's really time to go get help school kind of thing. School refusal is a really big extreme. And I remember we have that in my house. And I'm an educator is like, what do you mean, you're not going to school? That doesn't exist? You go to school? Yeah.

Ned Johnson: 17:44

How did to those are doubly humbling, right? I'm supposed to be good guarantee thing and an education thing. You know, like,

Wendy Wilkinson: 17:52

yeah, I remember I remember a day that I came to school very, to my work very frazzled, and somebody and somebody says, are you okay? I'm like, Oh, he refuse school again. Today? That's an option at your house? No, no, it's definitely not an option. But unfortunately, and it's not a it's it's something that we don't talk about very often. So those of us who who've been parents with that situation, there are very few people that understand that that actually exist and is not something it's a big mental health problem. Challenge. And so it's that's if that is beginning at all. Seek resources. It doesn't mean it's the worst. It's the wrong school necessarily. Yeah. I am hoping that we can catch up before that happens for kids. So the pain points if a teacher and or administrator says we're worried about your child for this reason, it is often I've been doing this for 30 years, the first reaction and I was one of them. Was you talking about? My kid is brilliant. My kid is great. My kid doesn't know that must be he must be bored. He or she is just tired. Right? Our first go to is no, that's not

Ned Johnson: 19:02

the case. School denial and defensiveness, right? Yeah. Understandably, we

Wendy Wilkinson: 19:06

see our kids in a different light, we also will see the kids in his brightest light as possible, because we love them. I would say if somebody comes to you and says we're a little worried, listen and ask a lot of questions, and then say, what can we do about this? Who is here to help us? How can we get the resources and support we need and our child deserves. And so that's the pain point when your child is really unhappy. It could be not even a pain point. If you are watching the child, just kind of skimming. And you know that they could just be in more engaged because you've seen them engaged in other outlets. And they're just kind of getting by, maybe we're seeing Hmm, I wonder what else is out there? We can explore it, because I don't really want us to wait until pain points to find the right educational setting.

Ned Johnson: 19:56

That's a really good point. So so there's that whole spectrum, right? You know, surviving versus thriving, right? Yes, you use the word threatened a moment ago, and my writing partner, Bill stricture, it has what I think is just a really elegant way to think about school. And this applies to kind of everything but he makes the point that the ideal learning environment is a place where your kid is challenged, but doesn't feel threatened. Right. And so feeling overwhelmed bad feeling chronically bored bad because there's not. There's not a great ROI on tax dollars or teens, you know, time. But your point about I know how brilliant my kid is. One of the things that I imagine is complicated to navigate is when a child cognitively intellectually can handle the rigor of a school. but socially, they so they don't feel threatened academically, but they feel threatened in some other avenue, you know, facet of school life. And that's a really big part of their school life. Because if you're feeling threatened, and it's just in the back of your head, then that really is going to undermine the learning, even though it's not that the instruction is to intense, I think in about the right way.

Wendy Wilkinson: 21:11

I 100%. I mean, there's so many different ways. I mean, think about the hours that our children live in these environments. And all good schools know that a kid can't learn if they aren't feeling calm, and content most of the time. Now, we know sixth eighth graders, that's a very infrequent time, feeling common content, right? That that is the most charged developmental stage. There's so many reasons biological, emotional, hormonal, chemically, everything. And so that's also, what are you seeing? And what are you hearing, I am always the first to say, please go to the school first. Let's not go, something's wrong. Somebody was mean to my child, we're out. It's let's talk to the school and see what team you have. Because every child deserves a team. It takes a village, it takes a team to support kids and families, and parents were so close that to have a team is so helpful. Now, if you go and you ask for help, and you're looking for a team, and there's no team willing to extend their hand to you, that's when you say I need to find a place that wants to work. Because these children are really important, and they deserve a team. So it's addressing first, what's happening? Am I crazy? Why is my kid coming home crying every night? Or why is my kid starting to disappear? Is this just neurotypical or developmentally typical? Okay, hiding in the room in middle school is more typical, especially now with the phones. But how do you look for red flags to really see am I am I missing something, we don't want to miss anything. We don't want to be hyper sensitive and over reactive, but we want to be responsive to our kids needs. And I would start first with the people who see them as much if not more than you do as parents and those people in the school.

Ned Johnson: 23:01

So if if parents, if they've come to the conclusion, are they with their kids, and of course, I should make a point that choosing the school, you choosing to stay at a school choosing to leave a school, choosing a new school should always be done with kids, not for kids, because ultimately, they're the ones who have to live this experience. And we want them as much as they can to make or help make that decision. Because whatever choice is, we want them to own that choice. Because otherwise I told you Mom was gonna be terrible. And then everything that's wrong is laid at your feet. We want you know, we certainly want kids to engage that gauge well, but if a decision has been made, when you think about in admissions, counseling, we always talk about set, right, and some people have a fit over the word fit, because I just want it to be you know, you know, the most competitive place in the world. But I think when we all step back a moment, we know that fit is really important. So what advice do you have for parents and for kids, when they're exploring, looking at options in school to how to assess whether it feels like this is a good fit? Or maybe not such a good fit?

Wendy Wilkinson: 24:04

It depends on the age of the child? You're absolutely right. I mean, I think oftentimes, I may throw another bound. Let's start with the the older kids. So they absolutely have a role in pre K, kindergarten, first grade, I worked with a lot of those families. And we're really talking with the parents about finding what they hope is a long term fit for their child with the other kids. Any family I'm working with, if they're looking at sixth grade and look at seventh grade, or ninth grade or above, a encourage looking for the wide variety figure, you know, asking the child, what are you looking for? What do you want in a school? Most don't know what other opportunities are out there. So they just say what they like at their current school often. But you keep in mind, what did the sports where they're thriving, are excited about arts really their safe haven is that what they're happy with? Obviously, those you're looking on the websites to those even exist at the schools because don't spend your time away from work and have the kids away from school if they don't have programs that your kid will thrive in. And then you start visiting the schools in person. And the older they get, the more the kids are on those first visits. And I always recommend if you can, if you can afford to and you have a car and it's a distance from one school to return into school or home, you're really quiet on that drive home and you listen, and you watch for the body language, because as anybody who's had a 1112 1314 year old, oftentimes you're not talking. Their words are coming out but they're saying a lot. And so I asked parents to listen to themselves, their bodies when their kids are responding, because it's a lot of information. So for my clients, I have the and take notes or you know, send quick bullet points or text to me, once I get home from that drive. I've never seen him happier. This is so crazy. He's talking about subjects I've never heard him talk about, or she seems super anxious right now. She says it's fine. It's fine mom. I just say just take notes, don't respond, just listen. And then we can revisit those notes after you visit other schools, but it's really paying attention to your child's What are they saying quietly? They may be really loud about it, too. It depends on your child, right? One of my kids would come home and just tell me exactly what she felt bad about. And that would be it. And I would not have a say in anything. So it's paying attention to them. But also paying attention to yourself as you go through. Yeah. And listening to does this feel like I could find people that will help me as I navigate adolescence with my child? Do these people seem to really care about the different humans that are in their community? Do I see my people? And most importantly, do I see other kids that look like mine? And I don't mean racially, although I mean, racially, that is a matter. Absolutely important. But I also mean, for one of my kids, who wears pajama pants every single day and hoodies and you know, a certain look, yeah, he's not gonna fit in, in a school that's wearing coats. It's just very clear, right? And another and the other child who would wear a fancy dress every day, she could not fit in the place where people are wearing pajamas every day. Right? I mean, not that that's just a cultural, a superficial look. But it's do you see where your do see, kids, I remember the first time we toured the school where my son ended up going for ninth grade. And there were other kids in pajamas. And there were five boys, right? All around one computer, laughing hysterically for 10 minutes of our visit, right? And I was like those, that's the table he will be at. Like him, they were all different races, and they all like em. And they were all just laughing and goodbye. Yeah, there's just a vibe. So you can get a sense when you're going through. But also asking the important questions, that one thing I would say for sure is, as you're going through really be earnest and honest with with who your child is, and what kind of learner they are. Yeah, I

Ned Johnson: 28:12

am when I talk with and I spend more time talking with teenagers, you know, headed towards college, but I think the same thing would apply here, that when you're visiting a place to look around and say, Do I see people who are like me, and or, like the person I'm trying to become, you know, because I, this is silly, a joke, but sort of I mean, you know, that, that I could walk into someone's party someplace, and be like, Whoa, total, this is not my scene, right? And you just know it right? versus, you know, I feel comfortable there. Because we go back to that, you know, you don't get much good learning if you're feeling threatened. And if you don't feel like there's some group of the folks there who are your you know, speed or your your scene, that'll be challenging. The other thought to your point about trying to pay attention to you know, is the arts is that the sports, you know, what are the aspects there? I point out to kids that you're going to go to, you're going to go and visit a school. And your your mom or dad was fantastic and everything. All right. And then somebody is going to ask a really irritating question like, Well, why don't you like it? Which again, sort of feels more like a accusation? That question, I guess it's a question with an accusation with a question mark at the end. And I said, but But honestly, that's a really good question. If you can put your finger on like, oh, my gosh, these people are so preppy, or they're not preppy enough. I mean, you know, you can argue, taste you like music you like and I liked the music that I liked. But when you can put your finger on them, two or three things that you really were fired up by, and two or three things you really put off by when you bring that information back to a family discussion, or to people at your school or to, you know, independent counselor, like like you are people who know the school, they know the schools, but what they need to know is no you right? And so the more information, you can pin down yourself and then give them then they can really help guide you towards Okay, well, then these are schools this is this is another group of schools that really might like and here's why I think that's the case.

Wendy Wilkinson: 30:10

Yeah, that is super helpful to me, and your values as a family and what is important to you as a as a family, and most importantly, to the student totally changes after visits. I will not go there because it's in this region. That is amazing how quickly that changes when they're visiting different schools and other than the region. I love everything, then they start seeing things about the region that they actually love.

Ned Johnson: 30:34

Yeah, thank you for unpacking kind of things that that families want to be looking for as they explore what schools talk through a little bit because of course, there's what's called I want to go to and then will the schools admittedly, talk us through the criteria that schools you was to figure out is this the right kid? Is this right family? For us? How do they assess a right fit about a student for them as an institution?

Wendy Wilkinson: 30:57

Yeah, great question. And I was just meeting with the directors of admission in the DC area, about how schools can even be more transparent about who they are, who they serve, and how they serve

Ned Johnson: 31:10

kids, you can get colleges to do that, let me know. And right, right, I mean,

Wendy Wilkinson: 31:13

is super tough for all schools, but easier it when you're smaller, you just every school has something unique about them. And some schools can serve a wider breadth of learners than others. And the more schools can be super honest about that, the easier it is for families to find the right school for their child. With that said, what are they looking for, it depends on the school, but they're looking for a match, they really, truly are, I know the directors of enrollment around the DC area, they do not want to set a child up, they really want to build a community that's healthy, and thriving, and they're, it's a big job. It took me years of doing that job, Oh, dang, we can really build a community or we can really hurt the community if I just don't pay attention to the match. So that's what they want to do. How do they do that? And what they look at depends on the school, I would say the most across the board is the two years of education prior right, what a kid has done for the last two years in the classroom will tell us what kind of academic setting is best suited, right?

Ned Johnson: 32:24

Because schools don't want to accept kids for some reason, but but where they're not going to be successful academically, that doesn't benefit anyone from the kid to the parents or the to the school,

Wendy Wilkinson: 32:35

right and the full two years. And that includes teacher letters of recommendation as well. But those fall two years give more information than say, and schools are slowly going back to standardized testing, they took a break, understandably, after COVID, and people are starting to go back more and more. And we'll talk about that in a minute. But two years of everyday school, your transcript and your letters of recommendation, say more give provide more information than one three hour test that can be important, particularly for certain schools, the test scores can be important, but they don't say as much they're not usually weighted as much as what have you been doing for last two years, I would say that's the most important piece is where they've been and what they've been doing what they like to do outside of school, either in school or outside of academics. And then the schools are really looking to build their classroom. So depending on you know, if it's a super, super rigorous academic fastpay school, they're obviously going to be looking more at the academic piece than anything else. And then for other schools that are meeting a wider breadth, they're going to be looking for that dynamic balance. And then they're going to look at the it depends on their programs. A lot of these schools are pretty small schools, but they have a robust program. So they have an orchestra, they have a course they have a rock climbing team. They have a crew team, and they have your traditional soccer, basketball, baseball, how are they going to fit all of those? Well, they have to build classes that have all of them.

Ned Johnson: 34:07

Oh, interesting, like the the tuba player for the orchestra, such as a university?

Wendy Wilkinson: 34:12

Correct. And so so that's sometimes it can be really frustrating to family to say, oh, my gosh, they have all A's are working so hard. How could they not have that school as an option? I said, Well, you don't know how many of those soccer players they have. If that's his thing. They might already that eighth grade class might already have a full team. And now they need them a musician and they need and they need the stem person. And so it's not it's just pure luck. Your kids capable? Yeah, and absolutely admissible. And this year, the numbers we're just not aware that child fit for that school. The good news is, depending on where you are, do you see super lucky? There are so many of these schools? Yeah,

Ned Johnson: 34:54

yeah. And it is worth noting that there, if you're outside of the DC area, there certainly are places in the world where there just aren't as many choices. And in which case, if you don't have some of the robust choices, that larger metropolitan areas have been where you're probably back to looking at how to provide more support for kid within the context of the school if choices are limited geographically. And obviously, it's worth noting that the finances can play a big part in this as well, because while pretty much every school worth its salt provides robust financial aid that's not limitless. And some families will have more choices than others.

Wendy Wilkinson: 35:25

I do want to say about schools talk about schools and their learning support systems. Yeah, because I want to make sure that students in schools find the right match in that area as well in that realm. It is important if you have a student with a learning difference to be upfront about it, and share that information and it may not be with the admissions office, oftentimes I would always recommend if somebody brought that up when I was a director of enrollment, could you please go talk to our learning specialist or learning team? Because I didn't want it to be necessarily part of the admissions decisions. I want it to be the parents decisions to find out and parents understand what we have that is accessible to your child, do we meet the needs of your child. And sometimes, as parents, we have a, an eye on a certain school, and we forget that our kid needs some things like, oh, they'll be okay. There'll be okay. But if the school does not meet the accommodation, so your child deserves to have to thrive, you want to know that from the get go, and then you went out, then you want to go find the right school. And so that's a super important part of it is to really get to know the Learning Services of each school. Then again, the school sometimes a third party, for instance, for my families, I can call the school and say this is the profile I have. They're applying to ninth grade, what is your eighth grade look like right now? Is there room for somebody who needs this kind of support? And they're pretty good about sharing with me of? Oh, Wendy, this is a really tough, yes, it's a combination we provide. But this class already has 30% of kids that are getting that the teachers don't know how to teach to 40% of the class with those learning differences, right? There are schools that know how to do it, but they know how to do it in a range, or the percentage so. So it's good information to have. It's not necessarily just because it looks like they can accommodate they sometimes can't. And it's not about your child often is just about numbers. So it's good to be asking questions, but really getting upfront information about what schools can accommodate. Public Schools often are a great resource for different learning styles, and to know what schools offer and how do you access those resources is super important to go in and say, Okay, I'm suspecting my child might have a different learning style. Can you help me? How do we get them tested? What is an IEP? What is a 504? How does this district accommodate for our kids? So I don't want to always say private schools are the be all the end

Ned Johnson: 37:57

all. It's such a good point. I mean, in in part, because, you know, public schools are legally mandated to provide supports that are, you know, if you have a neuropsychological evaluation or anything else, where it's basically a doctor's order of these are the supports that Ned needs, or the Ned's child needs, then the school is legally required to provide that sort of support. And that's not the same for every independent school. And so and so sometimes, it's really good point that you can find if you discover that the challenge that my kid has been having is because about a learning disability, or ADHD or anxiety that we didn't know about before, oh, gosh, that explains it. And right where we are, and maybe the place where we can get the support to to the companies to really thrive in ways that they haven't Thrive before in this environment. And that's a good point. Anything else you advise, the parents should know if they're exploring this process, or they're halfway through and looking at schools? Yes,

Wendy Wilkinson: 38:48

my most favorite, get rid of the noise. I'm really, really, really emphatic about think about your child and only your child, not your neighbor's child, not my girlfriend, that I play tennis with child, not the people, I have cocktails with children, you are talking about your child and only your child. Therefore, the school that didn't work for this person who hates that school, because it didn't work for their child is talking about a very different school than when even if you're looking at the same school, you may have very different experiences at that school. So by getting rid of the noise, I say, stay away from particularly anonymous online format platforms. Because you don't know where that person's coming from. You don't know who their childhoods you don't know, their experience, some of it, I could, I could go on some of those and see. And I could tell from my experience who was writing and some of it was like, oh, their child chose not to apply. And so it wasn't right for their child. Great. That's okay. But doesn't mean it's not right for yours. Right. And there's a lot of assumptions and there's a lot of brand names. And there's a lot of things that people, I'll tell you, I didn't go I didn't look at the school, I ended up loving, loving, loving, it was the best fit for my child, because I had made assumptions from the West Coast, about that school. And therefore I missed out on two years of being a lead administrator, two years of my daughter having the best school because I wouldn't even look at it. It wasn't right for my chair lane, for all sorts of reasons. And then somebody finally two years later said why don't you just come look at it I looked at it was like oops, oops, this is fantastic. And I want to tell the story so that the right families know about what the school has to offer for that kind of kid. Right? I love it. And so it's how do you get rid of the assumptions get rid of your old baggage if you if you grew up here and you had Oh, that when I was growing up that school is this well Oh, for most of us, it's been many years.

Ned Johnson: 40:52

Like, like, like children growing up schools too, can change, right? Yes. And what I just want to emphasize one more time, your your point about trying to ignore the noise. And also keep in mind the context of the person who's offering you advice. Because I, as a parent have all sorts of thoughts about the schools that my kids have attended and their experience there. But of course, I have, in this case, an n of two. And part of the reason for folks if they are exploring this process to work with you, or someone like you, because you've walked many, many, many families through this process, and so you have a broader context to help people understand find the right context for their kids. So yeah,

Wendy Wilkinson: 41:32

again, it is just the soul of our company school first, but also, the mission of the schools I've been a part of it's it's always the kid first, no matter what, even if the parents want this so badly, they just want it for whatever reason. If it's not right for the kid, it's just not right.

Ned Johnson: 41:49

Excellent advice. So really quickly, when if people wanted to reach out to you or your colleagues, where can that where can people find you?

Wendy Wilkinson: 41:57

School? First is our firm, you can find us at school first. nyc.com Oh, that's the Marvel origin story out in New York, right? That is the origin story. That's what's gonna say is, our founders kicked us off eight years ago now in New York City. And we have since branched out to, obviously the DC area, the San Francisco Bay area. Next we're in Los Angeles. And then now college counselors, well, right school first nyc.com, you can book free consultations with any of us. And that could be from any region, if you aren't in the DC area, and you just want to touch base, I do a 30 minute free consult just to talk about what could be a possibility for you. And

Ned Johnson: 42:37

for folks. And the good news is if you can't make your way to Wendy and her group, there are, of course, excellent educators in every corner of this country and your kids can get great school from all those folks or any of those folks, including getting help from people like Wendy who helps families find the right fit for the school because at the end of the day, all kids have brains in their heads and they have different hives to work out. And it's our job as educators and the parents just give them all the support that we can as they navigate their way from childhood to adulthood. Wendy, thanks for joining me.

Wendy Wilkinson: 43:10

That was fun. I'm so sorry about the dog.

Ned Johnson: 43:15

I'm Ned Johnson. And this is the self driven child podcast this time with. Hey, folks, Ned here. Over the past 25 years, I've talked to countless parents of high school aged students who care deeply about their kids education and how they deal with stress and the pressure to succeed. It can help parents to work with a team they trust won't just pile on more pressure to achieve better scores and grades. That's why I founded prep matters in 1997 to create a different kind of experience for test preparation and academic tutoring. This podcast and my books with my friend Bill structured reflect our company philosophy and approach to helping students. If you have a high school age student, and we'd like to talk about putting a plan together, please get in touch with us, visit our website at prep matters.com or while your kids may only text you might want to actually talk with the person. If so, you can reach us at 301-951-0350